APRIL 2007/INTERVIEW/KEVIN SAUNDERSON

What was the atmosphere like in Detroit back in the 80s when you first started making music?

It was a very progressive city as far as the people because we were all young, I wasn’t quite there at the very start but Juan was already making this music. I guess you could describe it as a bunch of black kids from Detroit, who thought they were pretty cool, even though a lot were just teenagers in high school during the first couple of years of the trend! Then it became more popular by the time me and Derrick fell into it in but from about ’81 Juan was doing his thing, and that was the beginning of that kind of Detroit music. I wasn’t that close with Juan originally, we were at school together and hung out, but I was closer with Derrick so when I went off to college he went to Chicago, where he heard a lot of new stuff due to the radio out there which was really good. He got to check out the different clubs and see Frankie Knuckles, Ron Hardy, people like that. Derrick started networking out there and getting an experience of the house music scene, getting to know the people in the record stores there, while Juan was getting his records out here in Detroit. At that point Derrick moved back to Detroit, and started getting real serious about what he was doing. He was influenced because of Juan, while I was getting really excited with the technology available - I couldn’t believe you could use this stuff and make your own record! So around that time we all really started bonding through the music, where we’d previously bonded through football ‘cause we’d played it together in school. When Derrick moved back he immediately started doing this radio show but nobody knew it was him, he’d just quietly set it up and he called it ‘Street Beat'. He was using it to play Juan’s stuff as well as some European stuff and that really inspired me. I started looking at the equipment available, at some 909s and 808s, and I started reading books and really trying to learn more about the process - it was like a virus, I just had to do everything to help me make tracks and become a proper DJ.


What were your influences when you were starting out? What sound were you trying to achieve in those early productions?

I just wanted to make a drum beat, so I started out experimenting with the drum machine, and through DJing I had started to realise how that was done, so it was quite straight forward to start making patterns, drum rhythms, etc.. After a while though I got kind of bored – I’d listened to a lot of beats by then, so the next step was the bassline. My real inspiration was when I’d go home during the summer time and I’d go to the Paradise Garage with my brothers, which for me was the most amazing experience. You got to see a DJ playing music where the beat never stopped, which was amazing to start with for me, but then as well as that there was this incredible sound system, the people who were creating a crazy atmosphere and on top of that the great music. I got to hear unbelievable stuff - extended Chaka Khan edits, Cerrone, early house stuff, Larry Levan was playing all that kind of stuff and it was so unique to me that it was a real influence. Detroit had its own sound though, so I had two lots of influences; when I first started DJing in Detroit I was playing things like Michael Jackson and Madonna, then bringing in a bit of New Order and Kraftwerk. There was also this incredible radio show with this guy 'The Electrifying MoJo’, which was a Detroit show, and there was this section called the Midnight Funk Association where he would play albums, whole albums, and then talk about the album, so if Prince had an album out he’d play every single track, and really talk it up. He really nurtured artists and helped you learn a lot, he was really influential for all of us back then.


What other clubs did you frequent at the time and who were the DJs that inspired you?

As well as the Garage, I saw Ron Hardy at the Music Box a few times which was also amazing, Paradise Garage was more of a gay scene, with a real positive vibe but the Box was raw, underground, it was like being in someone’s basement with this real energy level. He still played lots of disco but there were a lot of hi-hats and kick drums being brought in, as well as the European stuff. At the same time I’d be getting out to Chicago every few weeks and you’d get to hear these great shows like Hot Mix 5 on the radio out there. The shows would start at 8pm and go on till 3am, and the cool thing was the DJs were playing Detroit stuff too. At one point I had 3 tracks on a record and every track on the ep was being played on the shows because obviously the scene wasn’t that big yet so all the DJs were playing the same stuff! You can imagine how it felt to be young and hear your stuff getting attention like that, it was such an honour. Not long after that I was approached by some people making techno compilations in England which was really exciting. Before I knew it I had had a couple of massive tracks in the underground and I’d broken through.


Techno and House went on to become separate genres in their own merit. Was there any difference between what you were doing in Detroit with what for example, Marshall Jefferson was doing in Chicago in the early days?

Yeah, there was a difference, Juan was the one making the sound and he started back in 1980, I hadn't heard house then, only European stuff and disco, so he sounded so unique. Cybotron was just completely futuristic compared to albums we’d heard – he’d made his own genre. The house cats came not far after, and were using the same technology that Juan was playing with, 808s etc.. so I think the equipment helped to shape the music and give both scenes a certain sound but Juan was different, he definitely had his own sound. I was influenced by both though, I had some House and some Techno in there when I started I’d had a dose of each from the Garage and from Juan, while Derrick had his own thing because of the Chicago period, that’s why he liked the strings so much.


What sets Detroit techno apart from the other sub-genres of techno that have since been produced - do you think that the melody plays an important part?

Yeah, we’ve got melody and our own sounds. We could feel the melody and the music because we were making music for DJs.


Juan Atkins' early works were influenced by the European electronic sounds of the late 70s/early 80s, which in themselves were a response to the underground disco sound coming out of the states. How important an influence do you think that original disco sound was on your work?

It was definitely an influence, a big influence. When you hear those amazing records with vocals, proper songs... you can’t help but be inspired. It was also big, danceable music and that had to be an influence.


You were part of the infamous 'Belleville 3' are you all still in touch these days?

I just talked to Derrick today, and I saw Juan yesterday! Sometimes one of us is out of town or on the road, but we always check in, we’ve known each other since high school, junior high even, well over half our lives in fact!


Any plans for a supergroup? Or putting stuff out on each other’s labels?

We've talked about doing something all together musically, but it hasn’t happened yet, we’re all always so busy. I did put one track on Derrick's label back in the day, but if I make stuff now it goes on KMS, we’ve all always had that autonomy.


It’s been widely documented that you did your earliest recordings on a basic set up at home, how do you think the advancement of technology has changed how people produce and how easy it is to get into production?

It's easier for editing purposes and trying to simply create but you do need to be more conscious about the sound - the sound isn't as warm as with the analogue equipment, but it does make a lot of things easier, things like final scratch for the DJs etc.., I like to go with the flow personally, I like technology cause that was what got me where I am, but I don’t worry about it, if I wanna use something from the past I do, I mean back in the day if you wanted to edit you had to edit tapes and use razor blades, that was a real process - if you lost a piece you could be in real trouble!
I’ve been doing some shows with Ableton actually, live stuff mixed with video images, I like the program, the way it works, I've been getting really into that!


During the two decades that you've been involved in music you seem to have had more success in Europe, particularly, the UK - why do you think that is?

Detroit is a small market compared to New York and a lot of these other places, we had a situation where black kids were making music that nobody at home really believed in, but somehow it still managed to have a major influence in Europe, especially in the UK. Hip Hop was so big then but people couldn't connect it with what the Detroit kids were doing or they just wouldn’t accept it, that it was urban kids, just black kids doing something new, so what happened was Hip Hop just got bigger and bigger, then European techno came back over and started to distort the way techno was perceived in general, so Detroit wasn’t an easy place to work, nobody really knew how to view our stuff or where to place it and with Hip Hop crowding things it made a small market even smaller.


What do you think of the contemporary music scene in Detroit?

The black kids are mainly into Hip Hop, and there’s really not a lot of space to do anything else. My kids love that sound but they’re influenced by their peers, from the TV, it’s everywhere! They don't have the same outlets and influences that we had though, like the good pirate stations, and good media. That had a bigger impact then, now there are different pockets, with the west coast, the south, the east coast etc. Everyone’s doing it in their own way. Hip Hop has definite influences from techno though, Juan style stuff particularly and some of the younger producers are acknowledging that sound and using technology to bring that sound into it. One of my goals is to get a Hip Hop artist and create a bridge between Hip Hop and Techno, to try to do something like I did with Good Life and bring the two sounds together into something big, influence a whole movement maybe. Hip Hop is getting more diverse and less formatted, different sounds are being brought in so there’s room within it for experimentation. When Missy Elliott sampled Cybotron, I had to explain to my kids that that was Juan, ‘cause of course they know Juan, and they were freaking out! It’s the same with a lot of samples from Hip Hop like the good old soul stuff, my kids are always asking me how I already know the new songs, but I tell them I knew the originals – they don’t even know they ain’t originals!


You've released under a lot of different aliases (E-dancer, Reese, Esser’ay, Inner City, Tronikhouse), was it your purpose to create a different sound with each project?

I always wanted to put out a lot of records on my labels, partly to show my different moods, but also just to get stuff out there. I started out making some quite dark deep sounds and was just banging out tracks, but later I wanted to try some breaks, I’d heard some of that sound coming out of the UK so thought I’d experiment a bit, then with Inner City there was that collaboration between me and Paris so that had a different identity as well, while Reese Project was for the deeper, soulful New York sound. I suppose they all had different angles but mainly I just like working and want to put out a lot of good stuff.


Which contemporary DJs do you like on the scene now?

Now? Oh man, I don’t listen to other DJs any more! I used to hangout at parties and check out all the DJs but these days when I play out it’s rare that I hang around after my set to hear the other guys play! Over the years people like Laurent Garnier always impressed me, I liked Carl Cox for his energy, he gets on a techno vibe and bangs it out - it makes for a good dancefloor. Of course I always liked Derrick for his unique style, and his real musicality, and you know he’s heavily influenced by Ron Hardy too so it’s good to hear a bit of that in there.


And producers?

Carl Craig is the best producer in the world, the whole wide world. He’s got it going on, he makes so many good records and just has totality. He's a close friend of mine too so I'm very, very proud of him.


What did you make of the so called ‘next generation’ of Detroit spearheaded by people like Jeff Mills?

Jeff gets called next generation, but you know he was around when we were. We had DJ battles with him and he played Hip Hop, but also some very commercial stuff that people wanted to hear, to start with we really struggled to get him play our records in fact! We’d be like ‘come on man, please play our stuff’! After a while he was influenced by us though, and started making Techno. Of course he was creating music that was more sonically raw, definitely more abstract and very, very minimal but very interesting at the same time. He’s got his own signature.
You’ve also got to mention Underground Resistance and Mike Banks, they were really making things harder in techno, taking the dancefloor to a new world - something like Germany meets Detroit. It was a slightly different time so they wanted to take a different route and it worked for them. The sound was harder but still had a real groove, was interesting, and they had that militant attitude which was how they marketed themselves, and coming from Detroit that made a lot of sense, Mike is a truly great man too, but he’s not as mad as people think he is! He’s not mad at all in fact, just one of the nicest guys you can ever meet, you gotta really push him to make him mad, I ain't never seen him mad, I've only seen Nice Mike! He had a vision of how he wanted to do things though, the aesthetic, look, feel, philosophy; Mike was strict but made a lot of valid points, he didn't want people jumping on their bandwagon, he'd seen us helping people out and people not appreciating things so he took his own approach.


What does the future hold for you?

Well I’ve got a remix album coming out, the concept of that was that I hooked up with a few of my favourite friends, people like Kenny Larkin, Carl Craig, Carl Cox etc. and we’re making versions of all my classic tracks under all my different aliases.. Then after that I’ve got a new Kevin Saunderson album, under my real name for a change!